A Battle of the Sexes! Men of Action's Michael Sartain vs. Social Theorist Cynthia L Elliott

The Battle of the Sexes is on! Catch the fireworks on the wild new episode of Citizen Journalist. Two influential media personalities go toe to toe in a conversation about dating, the plummeting birth rate, and who is responsible for the state of heterosexual relationships. Tempers rise during this insightful and passionate conversation. It is dating guru Michael Sartain vs. social theorist and show host Cynthia L Elliott. Michael Sartain is a former Air Force navigator and is now the empowering force behind the Men of Action movement.

Available on all major platforms this Tuesday worldwide.
Show links:

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/citizen-journalist/id1624773258
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/45nhKlPizfb7GquMCbhv7u?si=635abe02e78b47b3
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@citizenjournalistshow

About Michael Sartain:
Michael Sartain, Founder of self-improvement business Men of Action Mentoring, is a highly sought-after performance coach, influencer, and podcast host. Michael's culmination of life experiences and his work helping others navigate their personal lives makes him an expert in various fields. This can be seen from his enlistment in the Air Force after the tragedies of 9/11 and becoming a Captain to now being a r

Spiritual guru, two-time #1 best-selling author, and higher consciousness advocate Shaman Isis (aka Cynthia L. Elliott) is on a mission to turn the tide of the mental and spiritual health crisis with mindfulness practices, incredible events, powerful content, and motivational storytelling that inspire your heroes journey! Learn more about her books, courses, speaking engagements, book signings, and appearances at ShamanIsis.com.

Ready for a life transformation? Ready to bring your dreams to life? Then you will want Glowup With Shaman Isis: The Collection of inspiring books and courses filled with life lessons and practices that raise your vibration and consciousness. 

Ready for a life transformation? Ready to bring your dreams to life? Then you will want Glowup With Shaman Isis: The Collection of inspiring books and courses filled with life lessons and practices that raise your vibration and consciousness. 

Chapters

• 1:00 Collapse of American Dream
• 10:32 Evolutionary Psychology and Mate Selection
• 18:42 Social Media's Impact on Gender Dynamics
• 29:54 Gender Dynamics in Modern Relationships
• 36:26 Gender Dynamics and Genetic Differences
• 40:54 Gender Dynamics and Natural Selection
• 52:35 Gender Dynamics and Sexual Selection
• 1:03:09 Gender Dynamics and Evolutionary Psychology
• 1:08:42 Men's Mental Health and Energy Management
• 1:12:44 Navigating Gender Dynamics and Social Interactions

Transcript

Speaker 1: 1:00

In recent years, we've seen a collapse of the American dream, the heart and soul of the country. It really has been a brutal reckoning. The closures they ushered in some truths we didn't really want to see. Our homelessness is off the charts, Our middle class is getting crushed and our freedom of speech is under attack from some of the most unlikely sources. Our problems have come to surface, like our politics and corporate greed. But you know what? We've entered the age of AI, the fourth industrial revolution, and you know what it affords us An opportunity to use extraordinary change to create extraordinary change. If you're tired of talking about soundbites over solutions, then join us on Citizen Journalist, where we, the people, come together to talk about ways to create a beautiful life experience for the average person.

Speaker 2: 1:55

It's time to change the world. Well, hello, hello, hello and welcome to Citizen Journalist. I'm your host, Cynthia Elliott, also known as Shaman Isis, author and well, a whole bunch of other crap, as you already know, and I am super jazzed about this episode today because it's going to be a bit of a, he said. She said it could get a little exciting in here, perhaps a little rarer.

Speaker 2: 2:18

I'm joined today by Michael Sartan, who has, I mean, your whole history is really fascinating. He runs Men of Action, one of the most comprehensive programs for men in the world, and is a retired Air Force navigator and also hosts the Michael Sartain podcast. Thank you, Michael, so much for joining me today. Thank you, Cynthia, I love it. I love it. Before we hit record, we were getting into like the depths of, like what's going on between men and women right now, because we know it's juicy, oh my gosh. And if you watch too much social media, you're probably getting all sorts of unhealthy information about it. So, Michael, can you just share for a minute with our audience who has not had the pleasure of watching your show yet or participating in your international course, kind of what your story is?

Speaker 3: 3:06

Yeah, I retired from the Air Force in 2011, and I lived out here in Las Vegas for like the last 13 years and I was living out sort of a lifestyle where I kept getting invited to really great places, I got a lot of great job opportunities and I would create opportunities where, when I would go out with my friends, there would be 20, 30, 40 beautiful women with us and for me it seemed normal. And then what I did was I tried to figure out a way. How can I teach this to other people? So I created, after the last 25 years of being a US military officer, me working at I used to work at a fund, I was portfolio manager or fund all the different things that I learned put it into one course with 25 years of knowledge, called men of action course, the most comprehensive male self-improvement course ever created. If you have any issues when it comes to networking, communication, leaderships or dating, then that's essentially what we teach. So I just noticed in this space there were a lot of people who were not very many people teaching leadership, like Jocko Willick was, but he wasn't teaching leadership when it in, when, in regards to dating and a lot of people who are teaching like e-commerce, but they were not including leadership or communication and a lot of people who are teaching, like you know, affirmations, stuff like that, but they weren't teaching communication. They certainly weren't teaching dating, and so I made one comprehensive course that fit into all of those categories and right now we've had 2,200 guys go through the course. We have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of testimonials from how good the course has been. It's just been absolutely labor of love for me. I do, you know, somewhere between 11 and 19 hours of content per week for my clients, including one-on-one calls. I just got off a one-on-one call right before I jumped on here, and that's essentially what we've been doing since 2019. Now it's 2024. We're coming up on five years. We've been doing men of action It'll be this December and we've been able to quadruple the size of the company every year since then. So it's been a really, really fantastic journey for me.

Speaker 3: 5:01

I also host the Michael Sartain podcast, which I joke with people is just super offensive podcast that I host. That gets me a lot of trouble. The podcast is basically on the concept of evolutionary psychology, which is the belief that the forces and functions of natural selection, darwin's natural selection not only causes us to get opposable thumbs and the ability to throw objects overhand and walk upright, but it also and gave us bigger brains. It doesn't just affect the neck down that evolutionary psychology, or evolution, affected the brain as well. We knew this through entomology. What like, for instance, when a deer is born, it immediately knows how to walk.

Speaker 3: 5:32

So we know creatures are born not as blank slates. They actually have certain proclivities that are baked in. We see children, for instance, infinite stare at the faces of more attractive people for longer than less attractive people. We know that there are certain things that are baked in and so what? There's a study for this.

Speaker 3: 5:49

And then, when you look at the study, a lot of the questions that people have been debating on the internet for years there were already answers for like, for instance, who cheats more? What is a man or a woman more likely to leave in a marriage? These kind of things are actually been data on this that goes all the way back to the 1970s, when evolutionary biology turned into I'm sorry, sociobiology turned into evolutionary psychology. So that's essentially what my podcast is about, and the two sort of cope hand in hand. I make content specifically on my podcast for my clients and it's worked out really well. Like I said before, we just we gained about 60, 70 new clients per month and right now we're at 2200. So it's been a it's been a great labor of love.

Speaker 2: 6:36

That's amazing, congratulations. I'm just happy to hear you know I've been kind of bitching for a long time about wanting to see more men step up for men in a more open and powerful way, and and that didn't exist for a lot of years, you know, or for a date. It was really kind of hidden and men didn't really talk about their emotional or mental or goals, things like that. It's a very closed sort of world in that regard, and so it's awesome to see men really stepping up to help other men evolve and grow. Before we got filming, I I brought up the fact that I feel like the reason why and I and the difference between us is he's very database and because I've grown up with a lot of data that, like the food pyramid, that turned out to be bullshit. I'm not that database, I'm very much intuitive base, because my intuition has proven me right time and time again.

Speaker 2: 7:15

Men marry for a mommy 2.0 who cleans the house, cooks, takes care of the kids, takes care of their emotional, mental labor in the household and then frequently, often has to put up with the fact that they get cheated on because that happens a lot and then expected these days to make half the money and women have finally had it, and I think that's the reason why they're not getting married as much anymore, and or are they having kids, which has a lot to do with the economy, let's be honest, but that the divorce rate is so incredibly high, especially when you look at post-closures. The divorce rate went through the roof and, michael, you had some strong thoughts about that. What are your thoughts?

Speaker 3: 7:55

Like I said before, when it comes to divorce rate, women are leaving men. Often, I said before, when it comes to divorce rate, women are leaving men. Often it's Scott Galloway, who's a very politically progressive guy he's a liberal who comes out and he says nobody wants to date with broke men. And so, cynthia, one of the things I wanted to establish at the beginning of this is when you talk about men, you're not talking about all men. There are two clear different species of men. There's the species of men that's the 6'5" blue eyes works in finance that women are seeking, and those men, because they have so many more options with women or they're very hard to get them to settle down dr david bus talks about. In situations where there's more women seeking men, those men are going to choose short-term strategies and often those women are going to become frustrated because they're trying to lock down a guy that several other women want. Then there's the other 85 of men who don't have anywhere near the same level of access to women, and the specifically the bottom third of men who have absolutely none.

Speaker 3: 8:42

And whenever we talk about men not stepping up or men not being vulnerable, when those men are vulnerable, these women do not care If a guy you were not attracted to came up and bought you flowers. You're not going to become attracted to him because he bought you flowers. When women say they want a man to buy them flowers, what they mean is they want a man they're attracted to buy them flowers. When women say I want a man to be vulnerable with me, what they want is a man who they're attracted to to be vulnerable to them. Because if a homeless person came up to you and started saying, hey, I just wanna let you know I'm going through some shit, bought you flowers, you're not going to go home and sleep with him just because he was vulnerable with you and because he bought you flowers And're saying before the guidelines for men.

Speaker 3: 9:20

What I'm seeing is actors that are men dressing in drag Machine Gun Kelly wearing a pink dress and Takashi 6ix9ine going around and snitching to the feds. These are the examples that men have today. I think men are more than sensitive and vulnerable enough to make up like in comparison to men from the generation of World War II to now. The idea that these men aren't sensitive enough is ridiculous.

Speaker 2: 9:43

Oh, I didn't say sensitive, I said emotionally and mentally mature. Emotionally or mentally mature.

Speaker 3: 9:49

The issue is, like you said before, women, because of parental investment hypothesis. Like I mentioned before, robert Trivers came up with this idea in the 1970s, an evolutionary psychologist, which is any two gender species, the gender that has more parental investment for in homo sapiens, it's going to be females. They're going to be the more selective of the two genders. And then the gender that has the smaller sex cell, which would be men and their sperm. They're going to be more competitive with one another for access to females. And we see this, it's a. It's a falsifiable hypothesis that's never been falsified in every single two gender species.

Speaker 3: 10:20

We've seen this to be the case and so, as a result, women are more selective than men and, as a result, women should if you were to take a, if you were to hypothesize, should ask for divorce more than men do, and we see that about 80% of divorces are initiated by women. I just had dinner four nights ago with the prompt, most prominent divorce attorney in the United States, uh, james sexton from manhattan, and he was explaining to me. He was like every time uh, you, we have a couple and the man has any sort of proclivity to lose his job or lose his money, immediately the woman comes and says I would like to get half.

Speaker 2: 10:50

I want to initiate this divorce as quickly as possible I find that I find that very, very hard to believe because of the number just in my lifetime, the number of women that I've seen who supported the relationship not only financially but emotionally, mentally, and usually didn't file for divorce until after trying a ton of other things. I just have to go back and say one thing I know maybe three women in my 40-something years as a relatively aware person on the planet that were genuinely attracted to six-foot-five men with blonde hair and worked in finance. There's so few of those on the planet.

Speaker 3: 11:19

I find it hard to believe. I think they would find those men attractive. They just don't exist.

Speaker 2: 11:25

Yeah, no me. That was one of my old finance guys.

Speaker 3: 11:28

Cynthia, I'll have a room of like 10 girls in a room and I'll ask them how old, are they, though?

Speaker 2: 11:33

What type of guy Can I ask you that?

Speaker 3: 11:36

occasionally a woman in their late 40s and then a couple of them in the early 20s somewhere in that area. I always look through the three M's I look for mothers, I look for master's degrees and I look for mothers. What was the third one? Mothers, master's degrees and married. Those are the three things I look for because I want a separation of different type of socioeconomic groups. When I ask the questions, the answers are always the same what kind of man do you want? How tall does he need to be? Six feet tall. Well, six feet tall puts him in the top 17% or, I'm sorry, the top 14% of the population. That. Well then, he needs to make $100,000 a year. Well, $100,000 a year puts him in the top 17%. So 17% times 14% is 2.3% of the population.

Speaker 2: 12:14

When you get to six. A lot of that has to do with the fact that historically and it's built into our DNA at this point women couldn't have. I mean, I was a kid when bank accounts were allowed by women. I was almost a young adult when we were allowed to get business loans without having a man sign for them.

Speaker 2: 12:32

So it's still built into our DNA that our safety, our financial security, the ability for our children to be taken care of and for us to be able to have a roof over our head was almost entirely dependent on men. So isn't that have a little bit to do with that? Is it said as though it's a condemnation of women, it's not a condemnation but it's evolutionary psychology.

Speaker 3: 12:54

So they did specific studies issuing concerning exactly the point that you brought up issuing concerning exactly the point that you brought up. So they go to get more egalitarian nations Like, for instance, norway is probably the most egalitarian nation on the planet, where women make more money than men, often in some cases, and in those places, what the women want is not for men to be 50 50. They choose for men to make 60% more than that. When Rihanna was worth $400 million, she was dating a billionaire. As women make more money, they want men who make even more money than them. The answer is about 1.6 to 1. So a woman makes $100,000 a year On average when they're surveyed, they want men who make about $160,000 a year. And even in egalitarian nations where women make more money than men, like you said, it's baked into their DNA. You are correct. This is an entomology. This is an instinct for women to be with men who are bigger, stronger and make more money than them, and that is the case.

Speaker 3: 13:44

But the problem is, cynthia, and you can read there's a 2016 essay by Dr David Buss which goes over this is that, as women make more money and 60% of college enrollees right now are women and about 68% of the graduates are women. If you go, look at it in those situations, those women are continually to make more and more money, and the men that they have to choose from when they look across or up is a smaller and smaller group of men, and then you hear women complaining more and more. But the problem is, if you're one of these men who makes two hundred fifty thousand dollars a year and you're six feet tall, you have Hundreds of women to choose from, and so now the women come to you. They want to date you enough. They're frustrated because you don't want traditional monogamy or because, like you said before, these men are cheating or whatever. That's why you need to separate the two different types of men, cynthia. They're the men who do not have access to any women whatsoever, and then the top 50% or 20%?

Speaker 2: 14:34

Why are the statistics of them cheating so high? So you're saying that, but I know thousands of women in my lifetime, and thousands upon thousands of women in my lifetime, were married to men who were not six feet tall, who didn't make $200,000 a year. Absolutely, and they worked their asses off to make those relationships work. And then they oftentimes ended for several reasons, but those are some of them. Okay.

Speaker 3: 14:53

So, cindy, you misunderstood what I said. I didn't say that they got the guys that were six feet tall and made $100,000 a year, because, to your point you're exactly right it's only 2.3% of men. What happens, though, is because they end up with a guy who makes $70,000 a year and five foot nine. They feel like they settled, but they didn't.

Speaker 3: 15:08

If you were to look across the stratification what's called assortative mating they were a six, and they ended up with a guy who was a six, but because of the attention they got from men they attention they got from men they believed they were an eight and were dating a guy who's a five, and that wasn't actually what was going on. They were delusional into the ability of what they thought they could get, and because they kept trying to get that man who was at the top, and because they feel like they settled for the guy who was under six feet tall and didn't make $200,000 a year, then they were more. They had a higher proclivity to file for divorce, and that's essentially what's going on, because our homo sapien brains were not designed to go on social media and see hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and thousands of images of people who look better than us, who are wealthier than us, and because of that there's studies that show for both sexes. For men, as they watch pornography, they start to find their wives to be less attractive.

Speaker 2: 15:55

And, as women see men who have, yeah, they start getting really attracted to really, really young, young people, because that's how our society is built it's built to train society's built in every society throughout history.

Speaker 3: 16:05

No, I'm referring to the.

Speaker 2: 16:06

I'm referring to the, to the, the like the fact that women over time have been like stripping women of body hair at wanting them to lose a lot of weight. That's about.

Speaker 3: 16:16

There's no but there's no stripping of body hair like Yamamamo Indians in Venezuela, in every single society in 1989, dr Bust is a 37-culture study and he goes over every society and in every single society. As men gain in socioeconomic class, the difference in age between them and their wives increases.

Speaker 2: 16:33

Men wanting younger women is not a function of normal. That has more to do with their friends than it does I mean just watching porn. Growing up, I'm'm just gonna tell you the body hair thing happened recently and it was a direct result of of 17 I'm just 17, beautiful I.

Speaker 3: 16:49

I understand your anecdotal evidence. This is really not up for debate anymore. In night there's been several studies that go over this. These are yanamamo indians in venezuela who do not have access to porn. They do not. The inuit indians do not have access to porn. In every single one of these societies. Aboriginal men in in Central Australia who do not have access to porn or the internet in every single one of these societies. The men who, when they grew in socioeconomic status, in every single one of these societies they chose younger and younger wives and these were patriarchal societies right, there's.

Speaker 3: 17:21

No, there is no other. What you're talking about before, the society where the foraging and the majority of hunting and the majority of fortification is built by women, doesn't exist. There is no other Society when you're if you're referring to it from that standpoint, yes, yeah, when men are in control, they want to.

Speaker 2: 17:37

They they'll, they're their facilities, preagricultural revolution.

Speaker 3: 17:41

There's no such thing as a non-patriarchal society, and every one of the societies all the men were in control. But here's the problem, Cynthia, if I'm a man and I was a young 20-year-old guy observing other people women that were not interested in me because I was not of a high status and whenever I saw that, the things that I saw rewarded by women with sex were being assertive, being aggressive and being more dominant, and so that caused me to want to do those things. So if you have a problem with the factors of patriarchy, then women should start having sex with men who are so assertive and dominant.

Speaker 2: 18:12

They have. I hate to tell you, but have you seen the birth rate in the world? It's dying.

Speaker 3: 18:16

The birth rate has nothing to do with who they're having sex with, because men refuse to evolve emotionally and mentally. I agree with a lot of what you're saying but I think the birth rate is lower because of birth control.

Speaker 2: 18:25

It's like we're blaming women for the fact that men have ended up in this situation, but I've watched a lot of relationships and I was not impressed.

Speaker 3: 18:37

No one's blaming anything or anything, but the birth rate went down because of birth control. No no, no.

Speaker 2: 18:43

In recent, the last five or 10 years, the birth rate on this planet is dying.

Speaker 3: 18:48

Yes, because of social media. It's not just social media.

Speaker 2: 18:52

It's because women are no longer so. It took about 40 years for us to no longer so. If you go back, it's been just about 30 years that women were no longer dependent on men for a bank account and for being able to get a business loan. And it's just been in recent years that we began to make enough money, because even 20 years ago, I made half what somebody else who made that didn't have half the results as I did, because he was simply a man. So it's only been recently that women could actually afford to live in their own homes, pay their own bills and make their own decisions and have the emotional maturity themselves to say you know what? I don't actually need a man.

Speaker 3: 19:26

Sure, and why would they when he wants a mommy? If they say they don't need a man and they are choosing men who make more money than them, then the men that they can choose from is so narrow and they're choosing men who are not available for them for long-term commitment.

Speaker 3: 19:45

That's the reason a lot of women aren't choosing men at all. I mean they're just. They're just getting burnt, they're just burnt out. Cynthia, with all due respect, like as a guy who does pretty well on social media, I can tell women are choosing that they're definitely you're talking about instagram.

Speaker 3: 19:53

Right, but they're choosing a very narrow, particular kind of instagram, I think 60, superficially driven I think 60 of the earth's population is on meta, so I don't know if it's a narrow anything no, no, no, I'm talking about people you're active on instagram and you're confusing people who are very active on a superficial social media app, which is known to be very superficial, which is known to actually cause psychological issues, which is known to push child porn, which is known to like the list of things that is so wrong.

Speaker 3: 20:26

Instagram is known to push child porn.

Speaker 2: 20:32

Yes, as a matter of fact, mark Zuckerberg was in front of Congress testifying about the fact that they had actually programmed their system to push it.

Speaker 3: 20:36

He got called out in front of everybody. I think what you're talking about was on Facebook. There were groups where they weren't policing it well enough. I don't think Instagram was pushing child porn.

Speaker 2: 20:45

That's actually what they called him out on, the fact that their system was pushing it.

Speaker 3: 20:50

Cynthia, I'm sorry, Do you understand WhatsApp, Meta, Facebook, Instagram?

Speaker 2: 20:54

But my point is I've owned two agencies and I designed, not just designed.

Speaker 3: 20:58

I founded Influencer Marketing and Brand Communications and I'm telling you that the people who spend a lot of time on Instagram are more superficial. Why would you do superficial? Why would you? But why would you do that? Why would you have influencer brand marketing if it's causing psychological issues for people?

Speaker 2: 21:13

Well, that's just it. I didn't tell anybody for a really long time about influencer marketing because I was so embarrassed that I introduced that.

Speaker 3: 21:19

You were embarrassed that you were going to influence a lot of people. Yes, I was.

Speaker 1: 21:21

I was.

Speaker 2: 21:22

Do you know why? Because I spent. I introduced that to this country in 2000,. I introduced that to this country in 2000, I think. Two was when we first started calling people at Fashion Week and then it took me three or four years to get that to take off, and then I sat back and I watched as people started flashing cash and posting you know, basically porno to get themselves popular, and then women started getting eating disorders and then men and women started having even more issues.

Speaker 3: 21:43

And I was like what have I unleashed? On this planet? There's statues of Greek women that were disproportionately skinny, eating disorders. Literally there's poets by Greek and Roman leaders talking about women not eating enough food.

Speaker 2: 21:57

The idea of a. So you don't think the mental health the spike in mental health issues is literally globally and in young teens. No, I agree. I agree that there's a spike of mental illness.

Speaker 3: 22:05

I agree that there's a spike of mental illness, but I do think it's convenient that you think that social media is part of the reason why it causes people to become incredibly shallow, but it's not the reason why women have become delusional in their choices.

Speaker 2: 22:16

It's so funny how you can have it both ways. This is so weird. You call women delusional, for Men are disenfranchised and women are delusional.

Speaker 3: 22:23

Men are disenfranchised because pornography has made them Wow, you just reduced the whole entire sex to being delusional and men is disenfranchised so we sound like we have oh, let me guess.

Speaker 2: 22:32

Mental health issues. Oh, women have mental health issues.

Speaker 3: 22:35

I think men have mental health issues. Yes, you know what If they?

Speaker 2: 22:37

had spent more of their time actually focused on their mental and emotional health, perhaps they wouldn't be in this situation. But you know, I stood by. I watched for decades as men excused all manner of horrendous behavior in the workplace and were perfectly fine with their mouths zipped shut, while women made a lot less than them. And if I had also grown up in a society where most of the men were actually stepping up to be the fathers that they should have been, then perhaps I would have a different opinion. But I grew up in Memphis, tennessee, in the 1970s and I remember the thousands upon thousands upon thousands of kids. I grew up throughout the 70s and the 80s and I remember the thousands upon thousands upon thousands of kids.

Speaker 3: 23:08

I grew up throughout the seventies and the eighties.

Speaker 2: 23:09

They did not have a male father figure in the household.

Speaker 3: 23:11

They sure didn't, and you want to learn from who?

Speaker 2: 23:13

the man was not around, he wasn't paying bills, he wasn't taking care of his family and he was all fucking around somewhere.

Speaker 3: 23:18

I watched that with my own eyes. So, according to what you're saying, 43% of the children in this country are born to a single household and 78% of teachers are female. But the problem is toxic masculinity, that's it.

Speaker 2: 23:29

Oh my God, do you mean teachers? Because that's a. You know the underpaid teacher role, because it's a feminine job, but there's still teachers.

Speaker 3: 23:40

Don't hurt your back Moving the goalposts.

Speaker 2: 23:42

That's not the question I asked One more time. 78% of teachers are female and couple of feminine jobs which are underpaid because they're feminine.

Speaker 3: 23:50

Again, I let's do a different debate on that.

Speaker 2: 23:52

One number one 43 of children born in this country are born to single women. Because one more time don't step one more time, one more time.

Speaker 3: 23:59

43 of the children in this country are born in single family households and 78 of the teachers are female, and yet you think it's toxic masculinity that is being talked to these people.

Speaker 2: 24:10

that's causing them to not step up. Let me say it one more time You're literally acknowledging the actual problem.

Speaker 3: 24:15

43% of the children.

Speaker 2: 24:17

There are no men around, they are not around, and they are not around in a role in which they should be One more time Cynthia. That's so great.

Speaker 3: 24:25

One more time.

Speaker 2: 24:32

You're trying to have it both ways. Men are not stepping up and not aware, and men are the problem. Men are not stepping up and men are not there. Men are not around. Listen, listen, everybody, everybody, pay attention, because we're getting this on video. So you're saying, because women were burdened with raising these people, that it's their fault. I totally agree with you.

Speaker 3: 24:41

It's a lack of male figures in this world, so totally lack of male figures, totally agree, but you're trying to have it both ways. Men were not around to coach these children, and men are also the reason why they're toxically masculine. You can't have it both ways, no, no, no.

Speaker 2: 24:56

If men are toxically masculine, it's because of the oh, so now it's society.

Speaker 3: 25:00

So one more time, the 78% children are turning out to be toxically masculine from our families.

Speaker 2: 25:05

We learn them from our, from our society. We learn them by the media. That is reinforced and they reinforce this whole toxic masculinity.

Speaker 3: 25:11

I watched it re-mat toxic, my barbara man, like it was, everywhere it was they were celebrated for their, the way they treated the lady, then I'm not here to blame women, but apparently you are, because if 78 percent of teachers are female and 43% of One more time.

Speaker 2: 25:29

Cynthia, you should be praising those women for being there. I do, I absolutely am praising them.

Speaker 3: 25:34

I don't issue it at all, but I am telling you, it did make women more sensitive and it made men the masculinity you're referring to. If it exists at all, it exists because of a feminized society that we live in today, where 78% of teachers are female and 43% of these children are growing up with single mothers. If that's the case, then there are no men to blame, because you just said that men weren't stepping up, so somehow these men have become toxic, completely masculine.

Speaker 3: 25:58

And it's a side, cynthia, unfortunately we're recording this, so the people who are listening, who are going to understand what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 26:04

78% of teachers are female, but yet this female teacher conundrum is causing men to become toxically masculine 43% of these women are being Because men ran for the hills and didn't take care of their responsibilities. The people that were left behind are responsible. That's your argument.

Speaker 3: 26:19

Your argument is that men ran for the hills, so therefore children became toxically masculine. That's your argument. It's not just that men ran for the hills. The only thing they did was look at African-American communities.

Speaker 2: 26:29

If you look at African-American communities in, say, the 80s, if the men were even there, they were not. They were taught to show a particular type of masculinity to their kids.

Speaker 3: 26:39

You're trying to blame women for being the bearers of the emotional and mental well-being of all, the children, and you're blaming them for how they turned out when men weren't actually taking care of business.

Speaker 1: 26:50

That's like saying a company that collapses was the fault of the employees.

Speaker 3: 26:53

It's the fault of the founders and the people running that company. I'm sorry, I know this must be hard for you. You're hurting my neck by trying to force these words into my mouth. That isn't what I said. I didn't blame anyone. You blamed this society for toxic masculinity when the men didn't step up. But there were no men to make the people toxic. That's the problem you're missing.

Speaker 2: 27:13

It's actually the society. No, no, no, no, no One more time. 78% of teachers are female. 43% of these children are sort of. I did not say the society did not have examples of toxic masculine people around them For sure You're talking about a society. Look at what you're saying. You're saying that the so the women teachers. Oh, okay, the role you mean, that role that was underpaid and undervalued underpaid has something to do with the fact that they're teachers.

Speaker 3: 27:34

I agree with you that they're underpaid, but you literally said that there were no. Look what you're doing. There's no male role models, but yet the male role models caused them to be become toxically masculine. You haven't thought this whole thing through television didn't exist in movies okay, so now it got it, got it. So just so we're clear.

Speaker 3: 27:49

Now it's television music just look at music from the late 70s to the 80s to the 90s, the, the voices, the male voices that they did hear spoke about women like hoes and bitches that was there and you're saying toxic masculine wasn't around just because they weren't being fathers didn't mean, their kids weren't being inundated with unhealthy romance, and then women kept sleeping with them.

Speaker 2: 28:12

Yes, and you know what?

Speaker 3: 28:13

Dumb women.

Speaker 2: 28:14

Dumb women, and you know what they have learned. They've learned to stop sleeping with men, got it? That's where we're headed.

Speaker 3: 28:19

So the point was, you kept talking about these patriarchal figures that existed in our society. Yes, they on our side, and women kept rewarding them with sex and then, acting like women had a whole lot of choice 30 years ago, 20 years ago. A lot of what we're dealing with now is what occurred 20, 30 years ago, 20 years ago, women were still struggling with being independent I don't disagree with any of that.

Speaker 3: 28:44

I don't disagree with any of that. But my point is this idea that now there's there's excessive levels of toxic masculinity, If you want to talk about the levels now I said that the toxic masculinity is the reason why we're where we are now with adults.

Speaker 2: 28:59

No, I'm actually concerned about our children seeing these overly effeminate ties men, because I think there's something really unhealthy with the way that's being shoved down everybody's throats, because that's not about emotional and mental maturity. That's about getting attention for your sexual adventures. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with emotional and mental maturity.

Speaker 3: 29:16

You think men are too effeminized now.

Speaker 2: 29:18

No, I think that society is pushing an effeminized version of men.

Speaker 3: 29:23

Agreed. I mean, of course they are. That's correct. That's why Will Smith has to get it addressed.

Speaker 2: 29:27

They want to weaken the system. It's really scary.

Speaker 3: 29:30

I'm so confused how you just argued against your own point previously. No, I'm not arguing against my own point.

Speaker 2: 29:35

What you're trying to do is reduce things down to like a stat, and the problem is that most of these issues are that complex.

Speaker 3: 29:45

There are multiple contributing factors to why we end up where we have Agreed that they're complex, but women in lesbian relationships women still leave other women more than they do in gay relationships, where men leave other men more.

Speaker 2: 29:54

Women are leaving relationships. I don't think we can compare gay relationships and lesbian relationships to heterosexuals you can. Those are like completely different worlds. It's three and a half to one.

Speaker 3: 30:03

Lesbians get divorced at a rate three and a half times greater than men.

Speaker 2: 30:07

So when women don't have men to blame, they're still getting divorced.

Speaker 3: 30:09

When women don't have men to blame, they're still getting divorced, but yet the problem is always men.

Speaker 2: 30:14

What is, what is? I don't know. See how those things actually connect. What do you mean? Women? What do you mean? But women, lesbian women, and the way they behave in their marriages, which were just in recent years actually allowed, and their attitude about marriage is a lot different than heterosexual people. What does that have to do with women, heterosexual women and heterosexual relationships? Leaving In science?

Speaker 3: 30:36

when you in science, when you're looking for different variables, you control for different variables. In this experiment, the variable that we're seeing, that we're disagreeing on, is the reason for divorce. You're saying the reason for divorce is almost tirely, because men aren't stepping up, yet it's 80% of women who are filing for divorce, and so when we control for men meaning taking men out of the equation we actually see that the divorce rate increases, which means that women are leaving men, even when there's no men to blame.

Speaker 2: 31:02

Women are leaving marriages. I think you're comparing apples and oranges and calling them like bananas. I really don't, and I'm referring to a lot of I mean most of the relationships a lot of the divorces that happened after the coronavirus. We're talking about relationships that are 10, 20 years old and we're trying to compare them to gay marriage, which is recent.

Speaker 3: 31:18

And the truth is that in most of those situations, people. There are certain states that have been gay marriage for more than 30 years statistics on divorce?

Speaker 2: 31:25

is it what somebody puts in a form or that they report to a lawyer? Is not the same thing as the reason that this situation absolutely, absolutely so.

Speaker 3: 31:35

Let's look at their actions.

Speaker 2: 31:36

They take half, 98 percent of alimony I'm sorry, but what men are you referring to? Because you keep acting like this world is filled with men with rolling bank accounts. And the truth, the truth is women make half the money now, like I don't know.

Speaker 3: 31:47

Well, they don't quite make out the money, but because they don't make quite half the money. And, by the way when, when women are surveyed in the workforce, 83 of the time when they're asked, would you rather have been able to stay at home, not work, and be able to take care of the kids, 83 of the time women in the workforce say that they would rather have been able to stay at home and not work. That's what they chose to say. I know that's horribly inconvenient for your point.

Speaker 2: 32:08

No, I would actually find that statistic doesn't make any sense to me, because the majority of the women that I've met in my career and I've met thousands of them- would know that you can't actually answer anything about your intentions with your future potential pregnancies or not pregnancies, or whether you stay home or not?

Speaker 3: 32:23

It's an anonymous survey. We're literally training. It's an anonymous survey. It's an anonymous survey.

Speaker 2: 32:27

And I don't trust data that you can't trace to the source.

Speaker 3: 32:30

Okay, so we'll look at. There's multiple, Cynthia, there's multiple. The food pyramid turned out to be complete bullshit. I don't trust scientific papers, because half of them are bullshit now. I don't trust scientific papers. Good, I'm glad we got that on camera. So here's the thing.

Speaker 2: 32:43

Yes, you should go research, the fact that they've discovered how many of these journals and these scientific papers turn out to be a finance by something with an agenda and be filled with lies. I'm so glad. I'm so glad I know this and I just did a debate on this. I'm so glad.

Speaker 3: 33:00

Exactly. I just did a debate on this. I'm so glad you brought this up, cynthia. Thank you, they do, and it's all in behavioral psychology. None of that it's called a replicatable. It's called the issue of replicability, right. So they weren't able to replicate some of these studies that happened. All of these studies that weren't replicatable were in behavioral psychology. None of them were in evolutionary psychology. None of them were in evolutionary psychology, which is the data I'm giving you now. Yes, 83% of women, when surveyed in multiple different surveys, said that if they had the choice to stay at home and be a mother and take care of their kids rather than be out working, said that they would prefer to have done that. That's the issue and that is why the majority of the GDP to this, it's not 50, 50, 50 of the GDP does not come from women.

Speaker 2: 33:46

At this point, but the majority of men actually expect a woman to make half the income now. So how I don't, that's again.

Speaker 3: 33:52

I've never seen any data again. You're going to go with anecdotal data and I'm going to use data with a so I'm just going with all the relationships.

Speaker 2: 33:59

I've never seen. I've never seen. I've never seen money and do twice as much labor. Okay, got you, cynthia. I have never seen it. I understand what you're saying. I fully expect her to bring in half the money and do twice as much labor.

Speaker 3: 34:04

Gotcha, Cynthia, I have more clients than you do. I'm telling you there's no data that's going to show that every man expects for women to pay half the money.

Speaker 2: 34:11

You will not find a single survey that shows that, oh my God, you need to go survey some dating apps because you will repeatedly like go survey people on dating apps. I'm not. There. Aren't some men that?

Speaker 3: 34:20

want women to make half the money, but when surveyed in every single time, women care more about the amount of money that men make than the other way around, and there's no exception to this in any society. It's about 100% more.

Speaker 2: 34:33

Yeah, because if he's going to take care of the children, he has to be able to take care of their lifestyle, and their lifestyle is not going to be the same unless he's making at least Again, you're making an excuse for what I said is true.

Speaker 3: 34:43

In places like Norway, where it's a more egalitarian nature, it's like 40% or 50% more. But in places like again, where there's more patriarchal society, like in the Middle East, it's like 200% or 300% more. So you're correct, I don't disagree with you on that. But the reality of the situation is it's not a situation where men and women are in agreeance that men and women should be each collecting, doing 50% of the work. In most cases, women are more concerned with men's ability to procure resources. Most cases I'm sorry, in 100% of cases in 100% of societies, women are more interested in men's ability to procure resources than the other way around. Men are more concerned with their own status.

Speaker 2: 35:20

Women are more concerned with the man sex that's been drilled into their DNA. You know if you talk about evolutionary biology when you say drilled into.

Speaker 3: 35:26

DNA. I'm not arguing with you, but when you say drilled into DNA, are you talking about culture or are you legitimately talking about entomology?

Speaker 2: 35:32

I'm legitimately saying that a lot of the things that we're going through, that we're trying to get somewhere in the middle of, because our society is changing and we're in the process of evolving as a world where women have much more rights and more to more equality still not paid the same amount, um, but I believe that it's a lot of the things that you're referring to, like saying 83 of women said that, which I still find incredibly hard to believe.

Speaker 3: 35:53

Yeah, I think it should be higher.

Speaker 2: 35:54

I think it's probably higher than that actually I I honestly I don't know 80 of women that actually want children anymore. I mean, I find that number to be crazy. These are women serving these.

Speaker 3: 36:03

These are women, Cynthia. These are women in the workforce who have children that are surveyed. Women in the workforce who have children 83% of those women say that they would have rather have been able to not work and then stay at home. That's what's going on.

Speaker 2: 36:17

Yeah, I think there's more truth to that statistic than saying it, just as women in general. So it sounds like. Can I ask you a a question, because the thing that I'm getting from you is that you, you sound and I don't want to say that you are if this isn't true, but it sounds like you're blaming women for the situation that men find themselves in when I've watched because my evidence in life is based on my observation of decades of seeing this the lack of emotional and mental maturity is what led to the implosion of most relationships that I've seen.

Speaker 3: 36:47

I mean, I'll say that money has more to do with it than the lack of mental maturity. But what I will say is this Now, here's the situation. You came to me asking me these questions specifically. So if you had come to me and been like, hey, I just want to let you know that I think women are trash and they're delusional, blah, blah, blah, I would have made the opposite argument. The argument I would have made is that men have become delusional because of pornography. They see non-contextualized images of sexuality and they start believing that they can get that from women, and so they start becoming ungrateful for the women that they have. And then there's also studies in evolutionary psychology that show that as men see non-contextualized sexualized images, they find their partner to be less and less attractive. It's a very, very dangerous thing that happens, and there's also problems when it comes with dopamine hits. So if you had come to me and attacked women, I would have blamed men. But because you have come to me and attacked men, I am. My job is to be devil's advocate.

Speaker 2: 37:34

One thing that I do, here we go.

Speaker 3: 37:36

Here's what I, here's what I do. Ready I always give this study to show there's a there's a double standard when it comes to the way these objects are discussed. Number one there's a study that shows that as men have more sexual partners before they're married, they're more likely to cheat, and that makes sense. And if I had a guy friends with me I'm friends with, like Dan Bilzerian, you guys have been with thousands of women. If I say, Dan, if you've been with thousands of women, do you think you're more likely to cheat in a relationship? He'd be like, yeah, that probably makes sense.

Speaker 3: 38:01

I've asked several guys this before. Guys, when I say this to you, you've had more sexual partners before you're married. Are you more likely to cheat? None of the guys disagree with me and none of them are offended by it. There's a GSS survey that shows that women who cheated in a relationship they surveyed 8,000 women anonymously Women who cheated in a relationship versus women who didn't cheat the women who did cheat had 230% more sexual partners than the women who did cheat. Meaning, as a woman has more sexual partners before she's married, she's more likely to cheat. Whenever I bring this up to women, they are horribly offended.

Speaker 2: 38:31

they tell me that everything that I'm saying is wrong. It sounds absolutely accurate because people who who aren't discriminating of who they'll exchange, because I believe that sex is spiritual for sure cynthia, but what I just said, exchange with every tom, dick and harry, then then you're.

Speaker 3: 38:43

You're totally agree, cynthia, but what I, dick and Harry, then you're Totally agree, cynthia, but what I'm saying is play the clip that I just said and watch your audience be offended, because they will be the idea that you can't turn a hoe into a housewife.

Speaker 2: 38:52

I'm sure that pisses people off.

Speaker 3: 38:53

Yeah for sure. But when the data comes out saying that you can't turn a hoe into a housewife, now there's actual data to show that People are fucking furious about it, but men don't care when you call, because men, men just genuinely don't care. Now here's another thing. There's three, the three main dimorphic differences between men and women. These are studied, replicated. These are the ones that they're easiest.

Speaker 3: 39:12

The easiest one you're not going to disagree with the one, it's upper body strength. Men are about 200 times 200 more strong, stronger than women as far as upper body strength and as far as the ability to throw objects over hand. It's probably the single greatest bite, uh, dimorphic difference. It's part of the reason why women softball they throw underhand. Men ability to throw objects overhand. There's no other species on earth that even comes close. Even gorillas can't throw objects overhand.

Speaker 3: 39:33

Then when the second, the second greatest thing is men's necessity for status. Women do not care about status anywhere to the level that men do. Men will kill other men over status. There's this thing, a great book called the Murderer Next Door, where you can go over this. Men have killed each other like revenge killings or prestige killings. Men certainly do have a large ego when it comes to status, men do not care. Women do not care as much about status as men do. Women do care more about a man status than the other way around.

Speaker 3: 39:58

But here's the third one, and this is one of the biggest ones. The median man has the desire for sexual partners, the desire for the number of sexual partners equal to the top 1% of women, meaning the average man would want as many lifetime sexual partners as like we're talking about the porn star like and women. The response that I've gotten from that is that well, yeah, that's cultural, that's just societal. No, it's not. That is totally. All three of these are totally due to testosterone. There is a massive endocrine difference between men and women, hormonal difference between men and women which causes these differences to happen, and they are genetic. You and I will agree that the differences exist. Where we're going to disagree is, I think, almost none of them are cultural.

Speaker 2: 40:43

They are almost totally genetic and when you say before it's like well, women, I agree.

Speaker 3: 40:48

I think it's a combination, to be honest, because, like I said 85, 15, I'll give you 85, 85, 15, it's 85% DNA.

Speaker 2: 40:55

Women choosing. So like that whole idea that women want a man who can protect them, I believe that that is built is both societal, but it's also built. It's mostly genetic, no, but the problem.

Speaker 3: 41:04

The problem is cynthia. When you go to norway and sweden and more egalitarian nations, women even want more men to protect them. They're like in those nations where things are more egalitarian, women are choosing more masculine men, which means it's genetic even when you kept, when you control for culture, it's still genetic that women want men that are taller than them. They want men that make more money than them. It's still the same thing. Now here's the other thing when it comes to the lifetime sexual partners, chimpanzees also want more sexual partners. The males do than the females do. That's not a function of patriarchy unless somehow we got patriarchy into the chimpanzee culture. It is a function of genetics. What I'm telling you is we may agree on where these differences exist, but what we're going to disagree is that I think almost none of this is cultural. It's almost totally, because when you think about culture, let's go back to the agricultural revolution. This is 11,700 years ago. Homo sapiens have been on this planet somewhere between 200,000 and 300,000 years on this planet. Hominids have been on this planet for 3 million years. Primates have been on this planet. Hominids have been on this planet for three million years. Primates have been on this planet for about eight million years, and that's about the time where homo sapiens and uh monkeys have a common ancestor. Mammals have been on this planet for 250 250 million years and these are placental mammals, meaning like uh, these are mammals that give live birth. This is, we're going back about 178 million years, and in all of cases, men were competing with other men for access to women, or males were competing with other males for access to females. If we go back 178 million years, we've been doing the same thing over and over again to aid in our survival. Then the answer to the question is genetics. It is not culture. Culture has not caught up to genetics.

Speaker 3: 42:39

And here's the other thing All culture is downstream from genetics, meaning, for instance, the idea of a westernized idea of what a woman should look. Like beauty standards, a 0.7 hip-to-waist ratio is actually the most fertile. When women are measured, that is the most fertile. Women have a 0.7 hip-to-waist ratio, and these are the women that men find to be most attractive. When they give haptic structures to blind men. These are men who have never seen a woman in their life. They still choose the same hip to waist ratio. They've never seen men that, or they've never seen women before. In this case you cannot say this is a function of culture. It is a function of genetics Men preferring women with a certain hip to waist ratio, spatial symmetry, signs of youth this is not a function of culture, it is totally a function of genetics.

Speaker 2: 43:28

Now, you can say, it's not Like us learning to speak English and us learning to build homes that individuals can live in, and us building skyscrapers and us creating technology.

Speaker 3: 43:36

That's culture downstream from genetics. That's culture downstream from genetics.

Speaker 2: 43:39

Yeah yeah, I mean, are you saying that you don't believe that men are capable of monogamy? They are.

Speaker 3: 43:46

Okay, so remember. Great question. This goes back to the first thing I told you before. Remember that 85-15? So there's 15% of men. I believe there's three genders there's high status men, there's women and there's low status men. The low status men are absolutely capable of monogamy because most of them can't even have one partner. A third of men are the age of 30 or virgins I believe it was in 2019. Yes, 28% of men. Yes, 28% of men under the age of 30 had zero sex in the last year. The median, the mean number of sexual lifetime partners for a man right now is five, if you get to the top 5%. So here let's do a little scale. Here the bottom third of men are having zero or one sexual partner like in their lifetime. When we get to the middle here we're at five. We get to the top 5%. Cynthia, we're at 50 sexual partners and the top 1% it's 150 sexual partners for men. For women, the top 5% is 18 sexual partners. The top 1% is 35. So the top 1% of women are having 35 sexual partners, the top 1% of 35. So the top 1% of women are having 35 sexual partners. The top 1% of men are having 150. Does that seem like an even distribution to you. No, what's happening is there's a bottom third of men who are getting nothing, absolutely nothing.

Speaker 3: 44:55

If patriarchy. When you mix patriarchy with hypergamy, what you get is a large. You get is polygyny, and in polygyny, a bottom group of men, because you don't have enforced monogamy anymore, but like the, the ultimate, the ultimate opposite extreme would be what they do in India, with arranged marriages, where even low status men will get one wife in the society has become more polygynous, ie because of, like you said, because of of um, because of hypergamy. What happens is there's a large group of men at the bottom that have no options with women whatsoever. Then we have this median man who's five, and then we go up to 150. And so when you look at that, you have to separate men into two different categories. These men at the bottom would have no trouble with monogamy whatsoever, but you aren't interested in them, but you aren't interested in them.

Speaker 2: 45:40

Actually, see, I don't agree, I don't actually agree with that. I think that I think that there's potential there for those men to step up, but but you have to remember that women women have been, and I know that you don't want to, it doesn't seem like you want to acknowledge this, but when, when women sense that a man does not have emotional and mental maturity or, or say, self control or self esteem or self-love, it makes him, it takes him from, like it just pushes. Oh, I agree with that.

Speaker 3: 46:08

I I agree with you yeah, I agree with you with the self-esteem and the self-love I. I know women who don't give a fuck about a man's uh emotional maturity and they'll still date him. I know women who will date a man just because he's rich yeah, they will. I know women who will date a man just because he's handsome? Yeah, they will.

Speaker 2: 46:24

Oh, yeah, no, I agree with that, yeah, okay. So now I agree with you about the self-love and the self-esteem.

Speaker 3: 46:29

100%, we're in agreeance there. I also agree with you with the total idea that you're coming up with, but the difference of where we're going to go is I don't think any of it's cultural. I think it is. If we went back 30,000 years, we would find the same situation where women were picking the top 5% of the warriors in their tribe to be the most attractive, and they wanted those men. They couldn't get them, so they settled for someone else, except divorce was not readily available to them. So there and women were far we can agree on this. Women throughout history have been far more dependent on men to gather resources than the other way around. We understand that to be the case and because of that they, they, they garnered a genetic proclivity to be more dependent on men for resources. Yes, I do agree with that. That, that's, that's true. But what I don't agree is that it's cultural, I think culture is.

Speaker 2: 47:11

I don't believe it's all cultural at all. I, I do believe that it. I I don't what I don't want it to be reduced to, because these are these conversations like I'm trying to add to the evolution, um, and and and help us, like, get to a place, um, where we can get back to having children. I mean, I'm actually legitimately concerned about a future.

Speaker 3: 47:31

Yeah, I'm really confused how you don't think hormonal birth control has anything to do with this. I'm very confused, oh.

Speaker 2: 47:35

I don't say that it doesn't. I just believe things aren't as easy to reduce down to one fact or one expression.

Speaker 3: 47:41

Hormonal birth control allowed, so women would have more children if they had children sooner. Regardless of whether or not that's right or wrong, it is an absolute no, no, that's, I agree with that.

Speaker 3: 47:49

Yeah, okay, so now women are choosing to have children later in life and part of the reason they're able to do that is through hormonal birth control. So the number of children that they're going to have there's. There's another thing in evolutionary psychology where it goes through a woman's age and then the expected number of children that she could have. At 19, it's like 2.1. But when she gets to 35, it's actually like 0.8. So like the number decreases as she gets older, so as women wait longer to have children, you take an average of millions and millions and millions of women, you're going to have a lower birth rate.

Speaker 1: 48:16

Part of the reason why women are waiting longer.

Speaker 2: 48:20

I mean, like our society was really engineered to turn us all into slaves and getting women in the workforce but paying them a lot less has actually led to a lot of what you're talking about, because the stress levels of women, the fact that they're being told that they need a career, like it's so so, first of all, I don't know that women are being paid a lot less now.

Speaker 2: 48:43

Oh no, no, I'm referring to back. I'm referring to when they first started pushing, because you go back, you can see where they started pushing women into the workforce.

Speaker 3: 48:46

This would be World War II. This would be World War II, as the majority of the male they're like you have cheap labor. We saw that during the war.

Speaker 2: 48:51

They could actually get some shit done, so let's pay them half as much.

Speaker 3: 48:55

Yeah, I don't think they're being paid significantly less. Now I do understand what you're saying, but here's we're asking more women to get into the workforce. The women are making more money. We've given them hormonal birth control and we're encouraging them to wait longer before they have marriage. The average age of first marriage 50, 60 years ago was like 24. Now it's 29. So as they wait longer to get married, they will have fewer children. This is a function of economics. This has nothing to do with culture or genetics. It's a function of economics. So they're going to have fewer children. That's the reason why the birth rate is lower because women are waiting longer to have children.

Speaker 2: 49:28

I'm referring to the people who are now. There's this huge, active movement of women who are choosing not to have children, for sure, I mean, I understand that and it's sad and I do think Thank you. Cardi B. I think this is a con. I mean I'd love to thank you making the stallion. Yeah, I understand, yeah I would love to reduce this down to like just a couple of factors. It is a complex situation that I believe the patriarchy has had a lot to do with.

Speaker 3: 49:52

It's like let's push women into the workforce, but we keep talking about patriarchy. Women kept fucking those dudes. That's the, that's the issue.

Speaker 2: 49:59

Oh my god, you're saying that like they, like they had a lot of choice.

Speaker 3: 50:03

They were trained from birth.

Speaker 2: 50:05

From birth, women are shown films like Cinderella and Sleeping.

Speaker 3: 50:08

Beauty, I actually think romance.

Speaker 2: 50:10

The whole idea of romance was introduced to fool women into thinking that men could be monogamous.

Speaker 1: 50:17

And they bought into that.

Speaker 3: 50:18

I think the whole idea of romance was introduced.

Speaker 1: 50:20

It's funny that you say that I think the whole idea of romance was introduced to convince men to become monogamous.

Speaker 3: 50:24

Honestly, high status men to become monogamous. So here's so I think it's the whole idea.

Speaker 2: 50:30

That's actually a really good point.

Speaker 3: 50:33

The movie Hitch is like horrible movie which tries to teach men to become attractive to one woman. Which is like basically, if you watch Hitch from a 2024 perspective, these men are all stalkers, they're all going to go to jail for a felony and we're like Will Smith teach me how to do the special thing to get Sally to fall in love with me.

Speaker 3: 50:49

I'm like you're a fucking weirdo dude. You need to get all you need more women to find you attractive. But no, the only thing I'm saying is we keep encouraging women to have children later and later because we want them to go into the workforce and we're asking them to go to college and is doing so. That's the reason why the birth rate's dropping. I don't think it has anything to do with men's emotional maturity.

Speaker 2: 51:06

It's a function of economics oh, I think it's more, by the way, to have children, by the way, I really do but.

Speaker 3: 51:11

But to have children does not require emotional maturity, it requires a zygote, it requires a sperm and an ovum. That's what it requires.

Speaker 2: 51:18

It does not require it, I think, to keep, uh, to keep a woman vested in a relationship for long. Two different things. We're talking about birth rate.

Speaker 3: 51:24

We're talking about birth rate right now, totally agree with you. We're talking about the divorce rate. That's something different, but we're talking about birth rate. Birth rate does not require emotional maturity. In fact, if it did, you wouldn't have 19 years. I think it does now.

Speaker 2: 51:33

And I think that's one of the main reasons why a lot of women are saying no thanks and we're talking about 20-year-old women who were saying I don't want to be in a relationship. I don't want to live with a man there's a huge movement there.

Speaker 3: 51:48

There's a huge movement of men that say they don't want women. It's called MGTOW Men going their own way, they don't want women. Of course, this is happening.

Speaker 2: 51:56

I actually think that's sad.

Speaker 3: 51:58

But I think for you to continue to. This is the only thing is.

Speaker 2: 52:00

You said that I actually really don't understand how you don't see that the lack of emotional and mental maturity has actually been a huge part of what no, no, no, I'm not saying it's not an issue.

Speaker 3: 52:08

I just don't think it's an issue with the birth rate. You don't need emotional maturity to have a kid. That's what I'm saying. I do agree with you. I don't believe that you do.

Speaker 2: 52:14

I just believe that the lack of it happening for the last 20, 30 years, as women began to come into their own, has been one of the contributing factors that made women go like yeah, you have several women that you see on a regular basis.

Speaker 3: 52:28

You know several of them that have had babies with men that aren't emotionally mature. For some reason, when the men are not emotionally mature, their penis still works. No, I've watched throughout my lifetime, as men have not.

Speaker 2: 52:39

I mean, I hate to say this because I know it's not a popular theory, but I have watched and I grew up in an orphanage, in the foster care I've been in. I've been in countless homes and in in very few of the homes, the families, the people that I've known, the women that I've known, the marriages that I've known, the people that I've counseled, the jobs that I've had like. In almost the majority of those situations the men were not emotionally and mentally vested in the relationship. They expected the woman to do everything and make half the money, then it's also who they're choosing.

Speaker 3: 53:12

So let's go back to what I said before about women not having choice. Women may not have. Let's go back and say women may not have had the choice to get married, but they did have the choice, which they were able to stratify men and say this man is more attractive than this man, why? But that's how hypergamy works. And the point I was trying to make to you is let's just throw out the idea that Women had no choice when it came to getting married, that they had to get married. The reality is they still got the choice on who they got married to. And when they look at who they got and we're not Talking about in India, obviously there's a range marriages there, but in the most Western society, basically that's everything in Western society after, say, romeo and Juliet In those societies, when we go through those societies, what we'll see is women stratify men. They say this man is more desirable, this man is less desirable.

Speaker 2: 53:54

What you're describing to me, cynthia and men, don't do that to women?

Speaker 3: 53:57

Of course they do. I'm not saying of course it's called hyperandry, it's called hyperandry instead of hypergamy. Of course they do. Well, my point is when, when women are stratifying.

Speaker 2: 54:11

They're choosing men that have more patriarchal features.

Speaker 3: 54:12

I'm sorry, it's just true they are choosing men that have bigger muscles, yeah, okay, but but right, but they're rewarding again. Men do everything. Read freud's original works, or read the original works of charles garwin. I'm sorry, I hate freud. I think he was a person. He's kind of a weirdo I don't disagree with, think he was a misogynist, assertive and more aggressive. Women keep sleeping with them. If women wanted patriarchy to end, you could end it in one generation.

Speaker 2: 54:46

I think that's now wrong. I think what you're saying is true historically, but I believe what we're seeing is the end of that. I believe that you were seeing where I believe the Fortune 500 companies.

Speaker 3: 54:57

Fortune 500 companies, 442 of them are run by men and 58 are run by women. I don't think it's wrong. What's happened is patriarch. I'm not even. Oh. Oh, I've been in the work environment professional environments.

Speaker 2: 55:08

And I promise you, the men, the men did dick all I.

Speaker 3: 55:11

I mean, I've literally sat in meetings where I don't know how you have a billion dollar company in a room full of professional wall street guys. You're talking about sexual harassment, which I agree with you.

Speaker 2: 55:25

No, I'm talking about the fact that men have allowed, have allowed us a patriarchal system to rule. They've been okay with women still making less, they've been okay with most companies being run by men. You're the only man. My response to that fix this my response.

Speaker 3: 55:37

My response to that is it's women who've been okay with the patriarchal society more so than I don't.

Speaker 2: 55:42

Because they keep?

Speaker 3: 55:42

I don't think because women keep having sex with those men. Women keep rewarding men who have are more assertive and more aggressive with more sex.

Speaker 2: 55:49

And I could tell you as a man, I think it's a great exaggeration I mean you're, you're, you're sure taking a handful of women who really want just so the audience. I think forever. We're going to have women who will fuck some man because he's powerful and rich, and there'll be there'll room full of women like that.

Speaker 3: 56:03

I will tell you the majority of women that would fuck a man because he's powerful and rich.

Speaker 2: 56:10

I don't agree with that at all. I think there's like a 20% but it sure as hell isn't 100%.

Speaker 3: 56:16

Throughout history, women have rewarded men who are more assertive, more aggressive and more competitive.

Speaker 2: 56:21

Yes, because they were subject to them.

Speaker 3: 56:29

And they still are. They could have chosen men who were not more aggressive. They could have chosen men who were more egalitarian. They could have chosen to give their womb to men who were more, who were more beta. They could have chosen to give their womb to men who were more emotionally mature, like you said before. They could have chosen to give them their womb to men who were not as competitive, not as aggressive and not as assertive. And they did not choose to do so. And because of that.

Speaker 2: 56:52

Would you, in a society that's run by men, choose a man who's not who's not leading?

Speaker 3: 56:57

I mean why? Why in a society? So what I'm saying is this has nothing to do with women's morality, so you can make it sound like this is women's morality. This has nothing to do with women's morality.

Speaker 1: 57:06

So you can make it sound like this is women's morality or that they're so shameless.

Speaker 3: 57:08

But the truth is, if we live in a world where the majority of corporations are run by men, the majority of executives are men, the majority of men still make 100 percent to a woman's 80 percent.

Speaker 2: 57:18

Men still run politics, they still run economics, they still run finance.

Speaker 3: 57:22

Because women keep rewarding those men for being competitive and assertive.

Speaker 2: 57:25

The list is endless, but I don't believe that women have been moving away from the very thing that you keep coloring all of them with this. Let's get one thing clear You're referring to history, but I think you're referring to history that is ancient, with current history. To get a calculation that you can find, got it.

Speaker 3: 57:42

So you put some words in my mouth. I'm not blaming anyone for anything when it comes to natural selection. There's no blame. There's no such thing as blame. What I'm explaining to you is that the reason why, if a patriarchy exists, it only exists because women keep rewarding those attributes in men, that keep rewarding those men with sex.

Speaker 2: 57:59

This is not controversial. So you're saying it's our responsibility to fix the patriarchy by taking home sex and not having children?

Speaker 3: 58:04

No, what I'm saying is in one generation, if women totally chose to not have sex with aggressive, assertive, competitive men.

Speaker 2: 58:10

All of that would be weeded out. The men would just rape them.

Speaker 3: 58:13

As we keep seeing.

Speaker 2: 58:14

Look at the statistics.

Speaker 3: 58:16

Do you think the statistics for rape has actually gone up? Do you believe that?

Speaker 2: 58:20

Oh, yes, it has. As a matter of fact, it has in recent years it has not. No, no, no. I'm telling you that if women withheld sex in a society where the violence against women has gone up over 30 percent, I'm telling them to have sex with men who are less competitive.

Speaker 3: 58:33

I'm not telling them to withhold sex. I'm telling them to have more sex. I'm telling them to have more sex with the nice guy they put in the friend zone, Cynthia. I'm telling them to have more sex with the nice guy who put them in the friend zone, who helped them change their tire, who helped them pay their rent when they weren't sleeping with them. I'm telling women have more sex with the nice guy who you put in the friend zone and then all the patriarchy would go away. Done.

Speaker 2: 58:54

OK. So, ladies, you heard, you heard it right here. He believes it's our responsibility to fix the patriarchy.

Speaker 3: 59:01

I said it's an if then statement. What I just said will never happen In a million years. It'll never happen, just like OnlyFans won't go away. Pornography won't go away.

Speaker 2: 59:08

I don't think women these days have a problem with pornography and OnlyFans. What they have a problem with is the fact that men have been resting on their laurels for a really long time.

Speaker 3: 59:17

I'm sorry to make devil's advocate. I agree with you. I'm making the opposite argument for men. Men complain about pornography. I'm sorry. Men complain about OnlyFans, women making more money in OnlyFans. And I keep telling these men stop complaining, because it's never going away Like these. Things are not ever going to be made illegal because of the First Amendment of the Constitution. So my point is in this situation I'm not saying that women are going to do this and I'm not blaming them. It's an if-then statement.

Speaker 3: 59:41

If women stop rewarding men who are more competitive, more assertive and more aggressive with sex, then those attributes, those proclivities, would not be passed along genetically to their children and you would see less aggressive, dominant men. I don't want to get too far into this, but there's a theory basically that because so many of the brave men in France died because they were betrayed by their countrymen in World War II, that's the reason why the French men are such weenies is because all the good ones got killed in the war. So what happens is genetically. If women were to choose all these ladies who are watching this, you've got a guy who you're just friends with. You don't see him like that. You see him as just a friend. If you slept with him, and all the women watching this chose to sleep with the guy you put in the friend zone. Patriarchy would disappear. That is incontrovertible.

Speaker 2: 1:00:25

That is I, I, I. This is uh I find that really hard to believe. Uh, I, I believe patriarchy's engineer has been engineered and if it's engineered, then it's downstream from genetics.

Speaker 3: 1:00:42

It's not patriarchal.

Speaker 2: 1:00:43

It's not patriarchal that male chimpanzees lead war parties and females don't if we lived in a society where women felt safe, perhaps they wouldn't be picking the aggressive. You know the man you keep naming.

Speaker 3: 1:00:57

Let's go to societies where women feel safer. Like again, we go to Norway, sweden and Finland, where the rape has gone up experimentally because they've allowed Norway, Finland and Sweden to live by the same rules.

Speaker 1: 1:01:10

No, what I'm saying is that we live in a world that still glorifies war.

Speaker 2: 1:01:15

It still glorifies the male soldier as the primary visual when we talk about going to war, that still is run primarily by men. And if we didn't live in a world where women's safety was often under threat, I don't think most men actually realize that Well, I agree with you, cynthia.

Speaker 3: 1:01:31

What you're saying, though, is downstream from evolution. If we go to societies where women do feel safer, what you should see is women not wanting to choose men who are more aggressive, more assertive and more competitive, and we see the opposite.

Speaker 1: 1:01:44

Men could just grow up opposite one more time when we look at society.

Speaker 3: 1:01:47

When we go to societies where we see that things are more egalitarian, like norway, sweden and finland, what we should see, according to your hypothesis, is that women start to choose men who are more beta, meek and less competitive, and we see the opposite those women who are in egalitarian societies where their needs are kept and they do not and they do feel safe are still choosing men who are bigger, stronger, faster, I think, being attracted to them.

Speaker 2: 1:02:11

Let me just go back for a second, because I don't think most people find beta, weak, wimpy men or women that attractive.

Speaker 3: 1:02:19

I don't think men care that much about a woman being beta or alpha.

Speaker 2: 1:02:22

I don't care where you live, If somebody doesn't have like self-esteem and self-love and shows up and glows up and does their shit and is a person of action.

Speaker 3: 1:02:30

I don't know many people who would want to talk about that. You're kind of asking for it both ways no-transcript huge difference between a type, a personality and a person who's self-actualized and most of these men you're talking about the beta men.

Speaker 2: 1:02:55

They are standing by waiting for shit to happen or they're going out there desperately for it. They are not manifesting themselves, they're not self-actualizing, they're not communicating, they're not looking for partners in the right place.

Speaker 3: 1:03:05

Agreed. So go sleep with those men and patriarchy disappears. Sydney, when you and I went through puberty, there's a massive difference that happened between you and I. I had 17 times as much testosterone serum go through my blood as yours. So on average, let's just say, your testosterone nanograms per deciliter was around the 60 to 100 range and mine was in the 700 to 900 range. And this is the reason why I don't know a single woman who can bench press 250 pounds, and I can bench press 250 pounds 15 times. There's a mass, and I'm an average. You know, I'm not even an athlete. Now, when we come to that realization, then there's this map. What is the number one controller of libido and aggression, assertiveness? It testosterone in men? It is not.

Speaker 2: 1:03:45

There's nothing that even there's, not even a close second yeah, and so because genetically, because I I work out pretty frequently and I can squat for 500 pounds yeah, the majority of the men I see, won't squat 125 pounds because they'll fuck up their knees lower body strength. They're kind of, I'm just so so so it's great.

Speaker 3: 1:04:02

I'm glad you bring that up. C on average, you would admit you're stronger than the average woman. On average, women are 50, men are 50% stronger in their lower body and 90% stronger in their upper body.

Speaker 2: 1:04:14

I know that's why I was asking you because I knew you would know what the distribution was.

Speaker 3: 1:04:18

So the distribution, also the lumbar dosis. So the way the curvature of the spine which is at a 45 degree angle, the reason why women have, you know, their butts kind of poke out a little bit more than the tilt of their pelvis it has to do with with homo sapien. Females have a unique adaptive problem for almost any other mammal, with the exception of, maybe, kangaroos to be bipedal and carry children. Does that make sense? Like a horse, a dog, a monkey, a mule, they're quadrupedal while they're carrying children. So they don't have the lumbar curvature.

Speaker 3: 1:04:44

When men are surveyed to say which lumbar curvature they find most attractive, it is the same lumbar curvature that women that are the most fertile have. And when men are asked which hip to waist ratio they find most attractive, it is the hip to waist ratio of the women that are also the most fertile. So what men find most attractive is fertile women. It is not a function of society or cultural norms, it is a function of genetics. When men see long, healthy hair, they find that to be attractive. Because we in the plasticine did not have the ability to look at your medical reports. All we could see is that you were able to grow healthy hair for three years and we see healthy hair and we're like. This person probably has the ability to pass along my genetics, so I find them more attractive.

Speaker 3: 1:05:25

Men who found women who were asymmetrical, morbidly obese or had bad skin attractive, those men did not pass on their genetics to the next generation Men who continue to choose to have sex with women who had a 0.7 hip to waist ratio that had the curvature in their, in their butt, and nice skin and symmetrical faces. They were more likely to pass on their genes, which is why men prefer women who look a certain way and why men prefer younger women.

Speaker 2: 1:05:48

it is not because of culture, it is function of genetics. I think younger is a relative term. I, I do, I I've, I've really looked at this and I do believe that we live in a society that's a patriarchal society that glorified prepubescent women.

Speaker 2: 1:06:02

I watched it become popular and I believe a lot of it had to do with with the glory, like I remember when those, those, the magazines with the young girls came out where they were pigtails in the plaid skirts and and, and then that creeped into pornography and then all of a sudden the idea of having nobody here became popular.

Speaker 3: 1:06:22

I agree with you. I think it's gross. Me personally, I'm 47 and my last girlfriend was in her 20s, but that wasn't something I specifically prefer. The whole 19, 17-year-old thing I thought was super weird. I have a lot of guy friends who are super rich and they love 19-year-old girls Because the girls, like you said're just, they come with less baggage and I get that, but they also have longer reproductive career. So from an evolutionary standpoint, I know why they want to be with women like that, although it is troublesome, having a Child at 17 18 years old is not good like it is not good for you health wise, as it would be at 21 22 Years old. I think it's probably healthier to do something like that. But again, all these arguments that we're having about the difference of what's called dimorphic differences between men and women, where we can agree that the differences exist, what we're going to disagree is that I believe they're almost entirely genetic.

Speaker 2: 1:07:10

I know. I actually I agree, I know I agree with you. I think a lot of them are genetic. I do believe that we're evolving as human beings and there's really no excuse that that can't evolve, because it would be a much more interesting society if we weren't so base.

Speaker 3: 1:07:26

You know, it just seems to reduce men to like these. You say that, but, cynthia, then you make men worthless and useless. That's what's going on here. Oh, I know.

Speaker 2: 1:07:33

So you guys that are listening, because this has been such a fun conversation, I do actually do live streams where I talk about men's mental health, because I've been very concerned about men's mental health and I think it's really important to to like even just to say that we've got a solution for you, a great, okay.

Speaker 1: 1:07:49

I want to hear it.

Speaker 2: 1:07:49

We've been having a great battle, but, but I do believe that our society is, is is has put men in a really untenable, almost an untenable position, and we need more men like michael, who are out there, like helping men, be you know, be men of action and see the, the issues for what they are. So please, yeah, please, share michael okay.

Speaker 3: 1:08:06

so for women, I do believe that the uh, what's called the we've gone over dialectical behavioral therapy and cognitive behavioral therapy. I do think that's more beneficial for women, and I I do believe DBT is the number one treatment for borderline personality disorder, which afflicts women more than men, so that in those cases I do agree with that. The problem is that the American Psychological Association makes little or no distinction between treatments for men and treatments for women, and there that's a that's very problematic, because what I think should happen is there's a third type that people rarely discuss, which is called behavioral activation therapy, bat, behavioral activation therapy. What I do to help my guys cheer up, you know what I do we go run outside, we play basketball, I teach them how to throw a spiral so many of my clients are from Europe and they've never thrown a football before in their life, they've never hit a basket before in their life and we go out and they go out and they talk to. They talk to women. They go up and talk to women in a nightclub not to sleep with them. Maybe they'll sleep with them, maybe they won't, but it's like they are getting over their fear of approaching women. They do all these things and at the end of a week with me, they come out at the end of it and they're like, oh my God, my depression is cured. They're so happy. They're crying Because for men, because throughout history, men have been rewarded by going out and killing the gazelle to procure the protein to feed the tribe, and throughout history, men have built the fortification to protect from predation and invaders the men who took action which is why my course is called Men of Action the men who took action suffered from depression far less than women, far less than the men who did not take action, and in general, men suffer from depression about half as much as women do. And part of the reason why is because of testosterone and men's proclivity to solve problems by taking action.

Speaker 3: 1:09:48

Any man who's out here who is having mental health issues, if you're dealing with schizophrenia or something that is a severe mental health issue, please seek a professional. But for most men who are out here who are suffering from depression, my first step for you would be to can you read 10 pages from a book every day? Can you get two workouts in every day? Can you spend at least 45 minutes in sunlight every day? Drink a gallon of water. Do cold plunge, intermittent fasting. Try to do a sauna. Consider testosterone replacement therapy. Get a group of friends where you go out and do something like either play chess, frisbee, golf, flag football or go play pickup basketball. Do something to that extent. Take out groups of friends, go. If you want to go on a date with a girl, bring a big group of people together. Go axe throwing. Do something where you're doing something and then see if you still need therapy.

Speaker 3: 1:10:32

After that, and I'm going to guess for a good majority of you. The depression goes away and you're. The security goes, the lack of security goes away and the self-esteem rises. Behavioral activation therapy.

Speaker 2: 1:10:43

I actually think it's about energy management, because energy management or a lack of energy management, is really what mental and emotional health is about. If you don't actually understand that your job is to command your energy, and you do that by drinking water and working out and moving your body or altering your when you're getting into unhealthy thought habits, you get your ass up and you move.

Speaker 3: 1:11:03

We have a problem here. We have a problem here. Guess what happens to my testosterone levels when I get up and move around and go to the gym all the time? Want to guess. They go up, they go up and I become more. Wait for it patriarchal?

Speaker 2: 1:11:15

no, I become more competitive, I become more patriarchal, and we? I become more competitive, I become more patriarchal, and we're back in this cycle again and no one's to blame.

Speaker 3: 1:11:22

No one's to blame, but it's just. We need to understand genetics first and understand that we are living in a total and complete mismatch. There's an anthropologist named Dunbar who stated that throughout evolutionary history that humans lived in societies between like 100 and 150 people. It's called Dunbar's number. We don't live in those societies anymore.

Speaker 3: 1:11:42

You and I probably would have never bumped into each other, given that there wasn't Zoom or the internet, and so now we have an exposure to so many more people because of the internet. It brought together the beauty pageant that I hosted, where I ended up meeting my ex-girlfriend. In those cases all of these things I'm being exposed to thousands and thousands of women actual women and millions of images of women that I wouldn't have been exposed to before, and this dilemma of perceived choice is causing me to be less satisfied in the relationship that I'm in. And if you understand that, then you understand that the contrapositive is true Women because of their reality or their dilemma of perceived choice, because they'll left swipe on 600 different guys on dating apps, apps thinking that they could get any one of these guys to commit to them because they had sex with a center fielder or power forward one time. Now they believe that they can get men like that all the time, but they can't get those guys to come who the fuck are you hanging out with?

Speaker 2: 1:12:30

I mean?

Speaker 3: 1:12:31

I know a ton of girls who will sleep with a really good looking guy and think that that's good because she's lot of them.

Speaker 2: 1:12:36

A majority of them are really young.

Speaker 3: 1:12:39

No, I know some older women that are like that.

Speaker 2: 1:12:41

Oh, I'm not saying there aren't, I'm just saying, let me ask you a question. You deal with a lot of women.

Speaker 3: 1:12:46

Do you have any women that come to you who have been engaged multiple times?

Speaker 1: 1:12:51

They're some. They treat it like a flex.

Speaker 3: 1:12:53

They treat it like a flex.

Speaker 2: 1:12:54

I can't remain friends with people like that, because they're usually really emotionally immature, but you're narcissistic.

Speaker 3: 1:13:01

You're aware of that type of woman who's been engaged like five times and she thinks it's like a flex and then she shows up the ring. Ok, this is a woman who is confused. She's a mismatch. She thinks because she had sex with a high status man, she can get one to commit to her, and she can't. And she doesn't see it. And that is the delta between reality and what you believe is called delusion. That is why I I call these.

Speaker 2: 1:13:22

I thought they were just flaky because they liked being engaged and they kept breaking up with the men that they were. No, no, what they wanted.

Speaker 3: 1:13:27

No, what they wanted, cynthia, is these men wanted to have exclusive sexual access to this woman by buying her a ring with no intent of getting married to it. Oh my God, that's what was going on if you have a woman who's been engaged. Great, oh, I'm great again. You didn't. You didn't come here. You didn't come here attacking women. If you had, then I would have, I would have. Oh, you know, and I can trust me, I can go there.

Speaker 2: 1:13:45

I just, uh, didn't think that was the right. Sorry, I'm just grabbing something really quick. Um, I didn't think that was the right.

Speaker 3: 1:13:50

Uh, uh, you know they've been no, no, I get on, I get on com, get conversations with um guys in the red pill space, and it's the opposite. I'm actually defending, I'm blaming men for things Like, for instance, I think sexual assault is gravely underreported. Uh, I know so because I live in Las Vegas and I'm and I know a bunch of girls who are sex workers. I'm not looking for them, I just go to the fucking mailbox. I live in Las Vegas. There's sex workers everywhere and I talked to them and it's very clear.

Speaker 3: 1:14:15

There's guys here who will literally sexually assault women that work in strip clubs or work in nightclubs, knowing that if they go to the police that no one's going to listen to their story. And I believe for every sexual assault, I believe one in seven is ever reported or something like that. I greatly agree. That's true. And I also believe that there's a 5% of women who over-report sexual assault when it never happened, Like basically, they were caught. They were caught in a situation this is the most common one I've seen High status man has sex with a girl casual sex. At the end, her boyfriend finds out that she had sex with him and her response is no, he forced himself on me and then he catches a rape charge that way. That's the most common thing that I've seen that men have to protect themselves from, which is why the advice I give men.

Speaker 3: 1:14:51

Number one there should always be cameras in common places in your home not in the bedroom, your home, not in the bedroom, never in the bedroom. Common places in your home should have a camera, meaning showing the entrance to your home and the entrance to your bedroom. You should have a camera there. Number two men never pour women's drinks. Women only pour women's drinks. If you have a party, you should hire a woman. You, cynthia. You know the woman. You've been to a party before, the girl who keeps saying that she was drugged. But she wasn't drugged. She just can't handle her liquor and the solution to that is that men never touch her alcohol and you're filming the whole thing. And number three men should not be texting lascivious messages to women ever. There's no reason to do it Anytime. You text a lascivious message to a woman, even if she says, lol, she's screenshotting it, she's sending to her friends and that will be held against you for the rest of your life.

Speaker 3: 1:15:32

Do not say even if your woman she's begging for a dick pic, send her a picture of a fucking eggplant. Do not that. Do not do it if a woman wants. If a woman wants you to send a dick pic, tell her to come over to your house and she can see it for herself. There's no reason to ever text message lascivious messages. We see men countless time the voice memos. You're gonna listen to the voice memos? Uh, the voice recordings of of uh tiger woods, the voice recordings of andrew tate. Men are just getting hemmed up left and right by leaving these stupid messages. Do not leave lascivious messages to women. Have recordings in public areas. And men never pour women's drinks. Women only pour women's drinks. You do that and you can thank me when one of your friends goes to fucking jail. And you didn't because you listened to what I said.

Speaker 2: 1:16:12

Right, you know, I think that brings up something that I was mentioning earlier, just as my, my advice to men and women you can save yourself a lot of trouble If you treated uh exchanging sexual favors with somebody, uh with with, as a spiritual act.

Speaker 1: 1:16:27

That's my personal opinion. It's not about taking more seriously.

Speaker 2: 1:16:30

Yeah, take it more seriously. Like you're you literally exchanging your energy with another human being and if somebody is really quick to lay down with you, you're going to be getting the energy of their most recent loves and I just think that's unhealthy. But you're also setting yourself up for an unhealthy situation because you don't know the person Love yourself enough to be selective about who you let into you or around you. Amazing, and I tell you, I had Michael. I had such a wonderful time in this conversation. I know we got, we got, but I think that's actually we need, that. We need conversation. We need people willing to like, go and get people thinking, because we were I'm sick of soundbites. I think solutions are important and solutions don't come when we all say the right thing, the nice thing, when we do, when we do battle. Um, before I close out, did you want to tell people where they can find you?

Speaker 3: 1:17:18

Yeah, oh you, instagram is probably the best place to find me. Um, that's, that's. I try to teach men Like I. I, cindy, we're probably gonna disagree on this. I think a man today, if he doesn't have good social media, he's, he's, he's hopeless.

Speaker 2: 1:17:31

Oh no, I agree with you, yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:17:33

Yeah, if you, if you, if you, your social media is not perfectly on point. Let me explain something to you. There's a guy out here who's listening to this right now. You're listening to me talk. There's a girl that you saw at work, at the mall, wherever, and you're like that's my dream girl. I wish that I could be with that girl. The guy that she's with is putting in the work, in the gym, and he has better social media than you. I guarantee you he does, and he was probably introduced to that girl that he's dating by a friend of a friend, so he has a better social circle, better social alignments and a better network than you have. Because when, uh, when, women introduce men to, or women introduce women to other men, there's a, there's a level of safety that's there. That doesn't happen when you do cold approach, okay. So if you guys want to learn these concepts, please go to my Instagram. You can find me there. You can also check us out on school.

Speaker 3: 1:18:18

That's the new app that's created by Sam ovens and Alex Ramozy as part of this. It's gonna be skolcom for slash men of action free. Just look up men of action for you. You can find it. Just search for us there and then, if you guys are really interested and you guys want to just join the program, just go to mo.

Speaker 3: 1:18:33

A mentoring calm. You can find us pretty easily. But look, look for me on instagram. First send me a message and then I'll give you some more information, um, on how to do that. But, by the way, I don't think you need to necessarily need to sleep with a lot of women, but you do need a lot of women to be attracted to you. I do think that I think the prime directive for men, when you're young and women don't like you, is for you to become attractive to as many women as possible. The best thing in the world for men is to be not creepy, and the best thing in the world for men is to be not creepy, and the best thing in the world for women is for men to be not creepy.

Speaker 2: 1:19:03

I love that. Thank you so much, michael, and thank you so much to our listeners. If you're not already subscribed to Citizen Journalist, what are you thinking? You know we're a very fast growing podcast, one of the top podcasts in Europe, and so you know, check us out. We've got a whole first season. This is season two and you can go check all that out.

Speaker 2: 1:19:21

I do a lot of episodes on artificial intelligence and wellness and things like that shares my journey from Tennessee orphanage to New York City. Pr diva to spiritual guru and a new American dream Conscious AI for a Future Full of Promise, which are my also hit number one in all of its categories, and you can find out about the events that I'm doing. I am in February of 2025. I'm hosting Code Queens Future of AI and Conscious Innovation Summit in New York City, and I've got some amazing women, like someone from the Harvard Business Review Advisory Council and one of the top women in AI in the UK. Actually, two of the top women in AI in the UK were all speaking at that event.

Speaker 2: 1:20:10

So check it out at shamanisyscom or codequeensorg, and if you want to learn about my AI foundation, visit soultechfoundensorg. And if you want to learn about my AI foundation visit, soltechfoundationorg. You will learn there about the AI literacy and skills courses that we're teaching to underserved communities so they can transition the age of AI smoothly. So go, check it out and come back and visit us some more. So, michael, we got to do this again. This was fun.

Speaker 3: 1:20:36

For sure.

Speaker 2: 1:20:38

Thank you so much for coming.

Speaker 3: 1:20:38

Let me know when you're in Vegas.

Speaker 2: 1:20:39

You can come on Access Vegas. I love it. It, yeah, let's do it, let's do it sure all right.

Speaker 3: 1:20:43

Well, thank you guys. Also I want to thank guys. You can check me out on the michael sartain podcast. Uh, latest episode just came out 43 minutes ago. So, uh, and let me know when this comes out, cynthia, so I can promote it absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 1:20:53

Bye you guys.

Speaker 3: 1:20:54

Thanks again, michael take care, michael Take care.